diff --git a/.gitignore b/.gitignore
index 23df282878f14..c618cfe370518 100644
--- a/.gitignore
+++ b/.gitignore
@@ -145,3 +145,4 @@ persistent.dat
 dumpstack_*out
 build.tmp.binaries/
 tasklist.json
+modules/esp_idf
diff --git a/.gitmodules b/.gitmodules
index 4c17390ea1cf9..f376e12f93af2 100644
--- a/.gitmodules
+++ b/.gitmodules
@@ -34,6 +34,3 @@
 [submodule "modules/CrashDebug"]
 	path = modules/CrashDebug
 	url = https://github.com/adamgreen/CrashDebug
-[submodule "modules/esp_idf"]
-	path = modules/esp_idf
-	url = https://github.com/espressif/esp-idf.git
diff --git a/Tools/ardupilotwaf/esp32.py b/Tools/ardupilotwaf/esp32.py
index 5cde9e59e4e9d..6f89acb60a0c1 100644
--- a/Tools/ardupilotwaf/esp32.py
+++ b/Tools/ardupilotwaf/esp32.py
@@ -55,7 +55,7 @@ def bldpath(path):
         env.DEFAULT_PARAMETERS = cfg.srcnode.abspath()+"/libraries/AP_HAL_ESP32/boards/defaults.parm"
     print("USING DEFAULT_PARAMETERS:"+str(env.DEFAULT_PARAMETERS))
 
-    env.append_value('GIT_SUBMODULES', 'esp_idf')
+    #env.append_value('GIT_SUBMODULES', 'esp_idf')
 
 
 def pre_build(self):
diff --git a/Tools/scripts/esp32_get_idf.sh b/Tools/scripts/esp32_get_idf.sh
new file mode 100755
index 0000000000000..817276d56e8ea
--- /dev/null
+++ b/Tools/scripts/esp32_get_idf.sh
@@ -0,0 +1,55 @@
+#!/bin/bash
+# if you have modules/esp_idf setup as a submodule, then leave it as a submodule and switch branches
+if [ ! -d modules ]; then
+echo "this script needs to be run from the root of your repo, sorry, giving up."
+exit 1
+fi
+echo `ls modules`
+cd modules
+
+if [ ! -d esp_idf ]; then
+    echo 'did not find modules/esp_idf folder, making it.' ; 
+    mkdir -p -v esp_idf
+else
+    echo 'found modules/esp_idf folder' ; 
+fi
+echo "looking for submodule or repo..."
+if [ `git submodule | grep esp_idf | wc | cut -c1-7` == '1'  ]; then 
+    echo "found real submodule, syncing"
+    ../Tools/gittools/submodule-sync.sh >/dev/null
+else
+    echo "esp_idf is NOT a submodule"
+
+    if  [ ! `ls  esp_idf/install.sh 2>/dev/null` ]; then
+        echo "found empty IDF, cloning"
+        # add esp_idf as almost submodule, depths  uses less space
+        #git clone -b v4.2 --single-branch --depth 10 https://github.com/espressif/esp-idf.git esp_idf
+        git clone -b 'release/v4.2'  https://github.com/espressif/esp-idf.git esp_idf
+        # check if we've got v4.2 checked out, only this version of esp_idf is tested and works?
+        
+    fi
+fi
+
+echo "inspecting possible IDF... "
+cd esp_idf
+echo `git rev-parse HEAD`
+# these are a selection of possible specific commit/s that represent v4.2 branch of the esp_idf 
+if [ `git rev-parse HEAD` == 'f370d5089f61ac39f183109b6b2908700cfe3b0a' ]; then 
+    echo "IDF version 'release/4.2' found OK, great."; 
+elif [ `git rev-parse HEAD` == 'c40f2590bf759ff60ef122afa79b4ec04e7633d2' ]; then 
+    echo "IDF version 'v4.2' found OK, great."; 
+else
+    echo "looks like an idf, but not v4.2 branch, trying to switch branch and reflect upstream";
+    ../../Tools/gittools/submodule-sync.sh >/dev/null
+    git fetch ; git checkout -f release/v4.2
+
+    # retry same as above
+    echo `git rev-parse HEAD`
+    if [ `git rev-parse HEAD` == 'f370d5089f61ac39f183109b6b2908700cfe3b0a' ]; then 
+        echo "IDF version 'release/4.2' found OK, great."; 
+    elif [ `git rev-parse HEAD` == 'c40f2590bf759ff60ef122afa79b4ec04e7633d2' ]; then 
+        echo "IDF version 'v4.2' found OK, great."; 
+    fi
+fi
+cd ..
+
diff --git a/libraries/AP_HAL_ESP32/README.md b/libraries/AP_HAL_ESP32/README.md
index 56092d3070be0..6ca30d3650e39 100644
--- a/libraries/AP_HAL_ESP32/README.md
+++ b/libraries/AP_HAL_ESP32/README.md
@@ -28,7 +28,10 @@ sudo pacman -S --needed gcc git make flex bison gperf python-pip cmake ninja cca
 
 cd ardupilot
 git submodule update --init --recursive
+# ensure the idf exists in modules/esp_idf (supports pre-existing submodules and/or cloning it for you)
+./Tools/scripts/esp32_get_idf.sh
 cd modules/esp_idf
+# use it:
 ./install.sh
 unset IDF_PATH
 source ./export.sh
diff --git a/modules/esp_idf b/modules/esp_idf
deleted file mode 160000
index 5595042c16d98..0000000000000
--- a/modules/esp_idf
+++ /dev/null
@@ -1 +0,0 @@
-Subproject commit 5595042c16d989c8e44f999eb30ce0e6377fd86e